Episode Transcript:
Steve – Welcome to the 138th episode of The Wonder space podcast and the first episode of our fifth year. My name is Steve Cole and I have had the privilege of asking the same six questions to amazing people from around the world, questions that orbit around wonder and stories of hopefulness. We started during the covid lockdown to enlarge people’s vision and perspective and remind us that alongside crisis and emergency, are always mind blowing wonders and hopeful stories that have the potential to fuel us and energize us even in the most challenging of times.
Before I introduce our guest this week, here is another one minute wonder from our friends at Ask Nature, who are part of the Biomimicry Institute.
Ask Nature – The giant groundsel is a unique plant native to the high altitude regions of Africa like Mount Kenya, that are nutrient scarce and frost prone. Unlike its smaller relatives, such as the common dandelion and ragwort, the giant groundsel has adapted to extreme conditions and grows up to 30 feet tall to protect itself from freezing and to manage its resources efficiently. The plant’s older leaves die, but remain attached to the trunk, forming an insulating layer. Typically, the dead leaves would fall, decompose and release their nutrients into the soil. However, since they remain attached to the trunk, the giant groundsel has developed another adaptation. The plant grows rootlets from its trunk that penetrate the layer of decomposing leaves and absorb the nutrients from them directly, allowing the plant to reclaim vital resources, ensuring growth and survival despite the harsh conditions of its habitat.
Steve – This week on Wonderspace, we ask our six questions to Caroline Casey, an award winning social entrepreneur and activist whose passion is to release the social and economic potential of the 1.3 billion people in the world with a disability. Her own story is extraordinary, from finding out she was legally blind only at the age of 17 years old, to her decision at 28 to leave her job with Accenture and trek across Indian solo on an elephant. Today as the founder of Valuable 500, Caroline is leading a disability inclusion revolution by positioning disability on the global business leadership agenda. Since launching in 2019 over 500 companies have put disability inclusion on the leadership agenda. I hope you enjoy this Wonderspace orbit with Caroline.
Steve – Caroline, it is so great to have you on board wonder space today, it’s our first episode of the new season or academic year. So Happy New Year to you, and I’m thrilled that we are starting our year asking you our six questions.
Caroline – Well, thankyou for having me. It’s wonderful to be here.
Steve – So I listened to your TED talk the other day from 14 years ago, and was so blown away that halfway through I stopped it, took my laptop downstairs to my family, and I just said, ‘you’ve got to hear this’ And obviously that’s 14 years ago, and just continues to be hugely impactful. So, I’m really excited about today.
Steve – Firstly, from this imaginary window seat on the space station with a panoramic overview of Earth, our first question is, if we could do a fly past over any part of the world that is significant to you, which place, city or country would it be and why?
Caroline – Well, today, as I sit in 2024 it’s not the country that my work began on the back of an elephant in Southern India, when I became the first western mahout, or elephant handler, riding across 1000 kilometers across southern India. The place that I would love you to fly me by is an old fisherman’s town called El Coyo in North East Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico. It has been the place where the next generation of those dreams and wonder have emerged from. Two very significant ones, one which was part of what I do today, the valuable 500 and the other is a dream to do with rhinestones and cowboy boots and sparkles in the sea. So it’s Mexico, but very basic, where myself and my husband go in January every year, we walk around barefoot. We literally watch the dawn rise. We eat very basically, and we just kind of fall in love again with the world, I think, in a very, very peaceful, gentle way. And that’s the place where dreams for me have emerged, magic, actually, and even so, because my husband would be a little bit more sceptical than me. I mean, he is blown his mind, the serendipity, the synchronicity and the magic that happens in El Coyo.
Steve – That’s such a great start. Caroline, I’m going to ask you an impossible question, because it’s only in a few minutes, and your story is absolutely epic and could take an hour. But I would love to ask you this question, to give us a glimpse into your life story so far, with an emphasis on what you’re doing currently. So how have we got to where we are today? Caroline,
Caroline – I am 52 so that’s probably why it’s hard, and I have lived life stretched and with a fierce, wild heart. I like to say that I have a strong back, a soft front, and a wild heart. And so from the time that I rode the elephant across India, I came back to Ireland, I spoke about the disability, which I had been hiding for a long time, and became a social entrepreneur, a troublemaker, an innovator, a campaigner and an activist, to end disability exclusion globally. And always, my passion has been to end it. We must have business and we must have business leadership, and that’s everything I’ve done for the last quarter of a century. Which brings me to here, because on the shores of this beautiful place in El Coyo, I decided I would do a mammoth horse trip across Colombia, from Cartagena to Bogota, which is big and it’s long and it’s hot, to launch the Valuable 500, or the concept of the Valuable 500 which was to end the CEO silence by getting 500 of the world’s most influential CEOs to be personally accountable and committed to increasing and improving disability performance. Miracle of miracles, we made it happen in 2021 on the 18th of May. It was done. It was achieved. It’s the biggest ever business community in the world with some of the biggest brands like you cannot believe it. So where are we today? Well, today is actually all about wonder. It’s a strategy called synchronized collective action, which is born out of a metaphor of murmuration of birds, or when an orchestra plays together, how extraordinary it can be. And it’s getting our 500 companies to work together at exactly the same time in exactly the same way against the hardest system barriers for change, and then report together on the third of December in 2025 in Tokyo. But the premise of that is imagining, or reimagining, or re-wondering of how we can make social change through collective action? And for me, it’s about trusting each other, being doing our unique journey, but acting as a collective and it makes it simple, because it’s like the action of one company multiplied by 500 times. Maybe we could make change happen, and maybe we could be an example for all social things. So that’s where I am right now.
Steve – That’s amazing! In a talk, you talked about the fact that in the FTSE, 100 companies, there was not one person who identified as having disability across the leadership spectrum. So that was 12 months ago. Where are we today? Has there been evolution and development since you spoke in 2023?
Caroline – I’m delighted to say there has. So that’s one of the synchronized collective actions, getting our companies to report on disability performance in their annual report. And one of the metrics is around self ID and so for me, the only way that we would be ever able to achieve something like this is if our C-suite or our CEOs themselves disclose their experience of disability. They give the permission for their teams too and I’m delighted to say I have spoken on many stages, have had many conversations and many podcast panels, virtually and in the real life, and we are seeing leaders disclose about their lived experience, and the ripple effect of that is what makes the change happen. So yes, I’m very proud to see that happen, because everybody disclosing, it’s very personal. I know it myself, but every time that we have the courage to face our fears, we give the permission to somebody else. So yes, it’s a very personal thing. People think the Valuable 500 is just about data, which is very important and not to be underestimated, but you must have the head and the heart, and that is the wonder of the valuable 500 we use both the heart and the soul and spirit of the human with the data and statistics and science of change.
Steve – Yes, stunning! You touched on it a bit, but next year is the SYNC25 summit in Tokyo, tell us more about that and what you hope, that that will further catalyse?
Caroline – Oh my gosh. If I was to tell you honestly what I hope and what I dream and what I see, I think people, I mean, everybody’s always thought that I had very big ambitions. I’ve always only had a few to believe in me in the beginning, what I do believe it will be a reckoning. It will be a reckoning of the world’s true ambition and intention around disability, inclusion, actually all inclusion. It’s where people have to push evidence behind their spoken intentions and ambitions, to battle the enemy of apathy and overwhelming excuses and produce work that we can drive system change with. So that’s the data of all of our 500 companies. And I mean, the best thing is, if they turn up and have done two out of the three Synchronized Collective Actions, that’s fantastic. But what I want it to be is this moment, if you can imagine, like you stand 500 people in a field, looking up at the stars and seeing what’s possible. It’s what’s possible. If we can all just do our best and be accountable and intentional, we actually could change it. I want people to be moved beyond the data from the sense of self to what can be accomplished together. That’s such an important vision and aspiration. Come on, Steve! I also believe we could be writing a new blueprint for social change, because collective action around change has always been spoken about, but let’s be honest, it hasn’t. We haven’t really amplified the opportunity. And I think the word that has been missed is synchronized. I’ve had academic institutions come to me and say, we need to write a case study on this, because what you’ve come up with might be the missing link. And so I hope it won’t be just an opportunity to prove disability inclusion, but maybe how we can make social change happen.
Steve – Brilliant. So good! Caroline, just a bit more personal, but for someone leading a growing, dynamic organization, speaking all over the world. For you, where’s your place of reset or recharge?
Caroline – Really easy, It’s a place called Patmos in Greece. I love Greece with all my might. I went there in April this year, and I stayed in a small fisherman’s cottage. There’s a theme with me, and the Greeks laughed at me as I went into the sea. Every day I swim. I’m an all-round sea swimmer. So, a recharge for me is the sea. It’s really important and I have to say, building organizations like the Valuable 500 are so full of failure and frustration and deep disappointment that that recharge, to remind myself, to forgive myself and not take it personally, is so important, and also just to go back to the nature and the basics. So yeah, Patmos in Greece, and I can tell you, you can see it in my face when I’ve been there for two weeks, I just look different. My eyes are different, and I did a very bold and dangerous thing. I hired an electric bike, and for somebody who is registered blind with ocular albinism, believe me, that was freedom. I cannot explain to you. I used to keep thinking I was flying down these mountains. But yeah, that’s my recharge. That’s my special place.
Steve – Oh, that’s so good. You’ve spoken in previous talks about the longing you have of the wind blowing through your hair, and that exhilaration you’ve talked about sailing. And so I totally get that.
Steve – We think about wonder, and the wonder that’s found in nature, in the whole cosmos, and we think this is something that’s exhilarating as a starting point. Wonder is something we should be talking about more. So Caroline, what wonder of the natural world excites you the most?
Caroline – So I have a duality in me. You heard me speak about the head and the heart of the Valuable 500 this kind of strong back and the soft front. So for me, it makes my heart, I mean, you can hear it in my voice, because I can just feel it is when I can look out onto the sea and I am seeing the sparkle of the sun like 1000 diamonds, right? And I look behind me, and I can smell the dust of the desert. Now, I have never been to this place, apparently, this is incredible wonder of the world. Is it Namibia, where the desert goes to the sea. I’ve never seen that, and that is the greatest wonder of the world that I want to see, because it’s the contrast of these two extremes that make me feel, you know, because the sea is so vast and the desert is so vast, and things coming together. For me, innovation comes between the creative tension of two opposing extremes, and it’s that moment and that thing of the touch point that’s just seems so extraordinary. If I was ever able to express how that duality that I have witnessed, it is bioluminescence in the sea, in the dark of a night sea, and you shake the water, and there it is. So it’s the light and the dark living together, these two extremes and brought together for this moment of magic. So I think that is very me. It’s these two, this moment of intersection of two beautiful things. But I have to say, I do love all of nature, but that would be my absolute wonder.
Steve – That’s amazing. I think I’ve spoken about it before on Wonderspace but there’s an amazing TED talk from a Marine Biologist, and he talks about, every time we go on a deep dive, we’re finding things that we’ve never seen before and his drop the mic line was, we estimate we’ve now found around 3% of all marine life, which is just extraordinary, isn’t it? It’s the wonder of it, and we haven’t even got started yet. I love the way that you talk about that.
Steve – We have two more questions, Caroline, which is unfortunate, because I could talk all day, but you’re in Umbria, and you need to enjoy your holiday. Our fifth question takes the focus onto someone else, and I know within the Valuable 500 organizations, there are incredible, hopeful stories but today I want to ask you, what is your story of hopefulness that’s not your own about a person, business or nonprofit who are doing amazing things for the world? So, who would you love to give a shout out to today?
Caroline – Well, I’m known never to have a favourite anything. It’s not my nature that’s so strange. I always have loads, so I’m going to give you two, and I hope the person that I’m going to call out will be okay with her name. A key ring was given to me by a lady who passed away eight months ago and arrived in the post and it said, What would Dolly do? And that’s Dolly Parton. And because everybody knows I have loved Dolly Parton for many reasons. One of the last things we did was sing Dolly Parton to my dad, before he died. But I love the idea that a young woman, a young, tiny girl from a very, very impoverished family, she just grew into what she saw herself to be. She always says, find your purpose and live it and she saw that, and people laughed at her, many times through her career, because of the way she looked, and yet she stayed firm to who she was, and now she is one of the most beloved, whether you think it’s saccharin the way she lives her kindness, but her idea of what the world could be and who she has emerged to be and defied all the sceptics. I just love her, and so when I get sad, when I get scared, when I feel I can’t do something, I listen to a song called ‘here I am’ by Dolly or ‘in the clear blue light of a morning’, and they’re the two songs I’m listening to at the moment, because I’m trying to make a project happen.
The second person is a person in the valuable 500 and it’s a lady called Orla. And, yeah, this is a lady that is learning to live her life in her way, with her squiggles and dots and magic. And I love watching people go through that metamorphosis. It’s amazing to me. It’s not easy, it’s scary, it’s hard. But yeah, that’s one very close to home. And the other is one that I hope to meet someday.
Steve – Oh, here we go. Dolly’s legends slot at Glastonbury is something that people still talk about, which is amazing, isn’t it? That out of everybody performing that year at Glastonbury, I think she got the biggest crowd.
Caroline – Well, she would, she’s really genuine. It means everybody, come on in. Let’s play. Let’s live, let’s do kindness. You know, she even does a gala with dogs. I mean, come on!! So yeah, she’s joyful, and I think that’s really important. Also, she was a wonderful storyteller, and she was a huge leader, a huge female leader as well. You know, incredible woman.
Steve – This has been such an inspiring orbit Caroline. But as we draw our time to a close and prepare to re-enter the Earth’s atmosphere, what insight, wisdom or question would you like to leave with us?
Caroline – There’s two insights. The first one is, you are never defined by one moment in your life, not one success, not one failure, not one mishap. You get a chance every single day, and it is so important to know that you can’t, because if you define yourself by an experience, a moment, a label, you limit yourself from the wonder of what is yet to come. And I think that is hugely important for everybody to know, and give everybody hope. And the second thing is never underestimate the power of just standing out in the field with your feet on the grass and looking up when it feels too much, when you actually have great news, just go out there and look up. There’s a song by Xavier Rudd, ‘follow the sun’. And honestly, just look up and realize that we’re tiny, tiny, tiny part of something so much, very big and never underestimate that the wisdom is inside you, and you find it shouting at you when you stand out in the field or in nature.
Steve – Beautiful! That’s such a great way of finishing our time together. Thanks so much for engaging with our six questions in such a brilliant way. And for people leading businesses who are wanting to engage meaningfully. What is your advice? How do they get started? What’s the entry point?
Unknown 23:09
So for people with disabilities, wherever you are in the world, there is an organization that is there to help. And for example, we have two or three, I’ll call out scope business, Disability Forum and purple space in the UK, but in every country around the world, we have friends and partners who are there to help
Steve – That’s brilliant, and we’ll link in the episode information all those organizations together with the Valuable 500. Thank you again, Caroline, for helping us to rewonder the today and for sharing your inspirational and hopeful stories, really appreciate it.
Steve – I hope you have enjoyed this inspiring orbit with Caroline. In our fifth question on Wonderspace, we have asked 140 people to share a hopeful story about someone else. Inspired by the potential of this question, we have created a networking platform called someone else that connects us through the way that we share hopeful stories about someone else, go to someoneelse.space, create a simple profile and upload your story today.
Let’s continue to share our wonder and stories of hopefulness.
Thanks for listening.
